x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) Subject: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 01:57:54 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) Folks, as a fellow enthusiast, and a participant in tournaments, I honestly cannot in good conscience say that Pinball Expo '95 will be worth your time or money. Take it from me, I've been to the last three, and they get worse every year. Each year, the company people get jerkier and more powerful, to the point that they get downright abusive with the "ordinary" fans like you and me. Example: this past year while these idiots were conducting their exclusive tournament among themselves, I was PHYSICALLY THROWN OFF an adjacent machine by Larry DeMar for distracting the player next to me! He then proceded to say, and I quote "You're doing every damn thing to distract him." Now, I'll admit, that I had said something to him before (my mistake), since I saw others were speaking to him as well. But for me to want to play the game next to him and now be allowed, simply because THEY were playing? Sorry, but I'm not going to pay good money, waste valuable vacation time, and end up feeling bad, for this knid of treatment. Add to this the fact that there are fewer and fewer machines on display/for sale EVERY YEAR, the fact that the hotel is nothing to write home about, that the prices go up every year while the lectures and exhibition hall get worse, hey, is my point clear enough? You can probably tell I'm pissed off. Well, I think I have a right to be. I urge you, as fellow enthusiasts, to take my advice and make a statement by not attending. And yes, I am willing to take an earful for what I've said here on the net. But whoever responds, be it LED, Mike Pacak, Rob Berk, or whoever, even you, Roger Sharpe, had darned well be able to defend themselves pretty well. I admitted my mistake, if you can call it that. But who can honestly say that the Expo is better now than it was 3-5 years ago? Love to hear from you. Don't attend. You'd be much better off just touring the Windy City for test pins. Sincerely, ArtisanXXY. Oh, and just in case anyone has a problem with my anonymity, just E-Mail a response to me, and, if you desire, I'll be happy to tell you my actual name. I don't hide behind a name, but neither do I apologize for my statements. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: rosco29@mindspring.com (Scott Piehler) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:12:55 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) wrote: >Folks, as a fellow enthusiast, and a participant in tournaments, I >honestly cannot in good conscience say that Pinball Expo '95 will be worth >your time or money. Take it from me, I've been to the last three, and >they get worse every year. Gee, I was at EXPO '94 and kind of enjoyed myself. >Each year, the company people get jerkier and >more powerful, to the point that they get downright abusive with the >"ordinary" fans like you and me. Example: this past year while these >idiots were conducting their exclusive tournament among themselves, I was >PHYSICALLY THROWN OFF an adjacent machine by Larry DeMar for distracting >the player next to me! (snip) I don't think you'll get much argument from folks here that the tournament at EXPO is anything more than an excuse to make money. There was a lengthy thread about tourney problems after 'E94 >Add to this the fact that there are fewer and >fewer machines on display/for sale EVERY YEAR Only been once, can't comment >, the fact that the hotel is >nothing to write home about, True, but that may be a function of affordability >that the prices go up every year while the >lectures and exhibition hall get worse, I thought the lectures were the BEST part. Enjoyed them IMMENSELY. > I urge you, as fellow enthusiasts, to take my advice and make a statement >by not attending. I won't be attending, but the only statement I'm making is *I have a small baby* and am not traveling. > And yes, I am willing to take an earful for what I've >said here on the net. But whoever responds, be it LED, Mike Pacak, Rob >Berk, or whoever, even you, Roger Sharpe, had darned well be able to >defend themselves pretty well. The highlight of E94 for me was a 20 minute conversation I had w/ Roger about pin maintenance. He was a perfect gentlemen, and seemed VERY interested in what I had to say. My own summary: 1. The tourney setup at EXPO stinks. No argument. That ground was covered extensively in post after post last year. I totally agree. 2. EXPO itself was a great way to meet fellow r.g.p'ers, and enthusiasts. 3. I found the lectures invaluable. I guess it's pretty much what you make of it. Sorry you had such a bad time. I'm curious to hear what others thought. Scott Scott Piehler rosco29@mindspring,com Atlanta, GA, USA The only graceful way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved. -- Russell Lynes, American editor and author. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: tiesmasc@egr.msu.edu (Scott R Tiesma) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 12:58:44 GMT Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering Well, hopefully your post will reach those who most needed to hear it (the organizers, etc of Expo). If so, hopefully they'll also take it to heart. I can't comment b/c I've never been to expo... (even though you warned,) this year will be my first one if I can manage the time and money (because mainly, I've never seen many of the older pins like BK, BK2000, Banzai Run, and a slew of others - and I really want to tour williams (if it's them this year), and I would love to meet some fellow enthusiasts (both rgp'ers and non-rgp'ers and industry types). So, though what you say may be true, and I hope that if it is it gets changed... I'm still going to go if I can manage it (and hope that I'm not dissapointed) x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: brittb@barracuda.dadd.ti.com (Britt Brooks) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 09:50:51 -0500 In article <3n7hh2$gq7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) writes: ->Folks, as a fellow enthusiast, and a participant in tournaments, I ->honestly cannot in good conscience say that Pinball Expo '95 will be worth ->your time or money. Take it from me, I've been to the last three, and Totally Mindless Drivel Deleted...... Yeah, I remember my first beer... Too bad there isn't a law against drunk driving on the "information superhighway, eh? SheesH!! Britt Brooks brittb@dadd.ti.com x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: field@cae.wisc.edu (Michael Brian Field) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 15:59:13 GMT Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison In article <3n7lgo$1058@nntp4.mindspring.com> rosco29@mindspring.com (Scott Piehler) writes: >artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) wrote: > >>Folks, as a fellow enthusiast, and a participant in tournaments, I >>honestly cannot in good conscience say that Pinball Expo '95 will be worth >>your time or money. Take it from me, I've been to the last three, and >>they get worse every year. > >Gee, I was at EXPO '94 and kind of enjoyed myself. > >I guess it's pretty much what you make of it. Sorry you had such a bad >time. I'm curious to hear what others thought. I have been to two Expo's and various other competitions, and I would say if you are interested in either the competitive aspect or playing the newest games this is not the best place. The competition is lame because you can qualify by spending more $$$$ and everyone is heaped into the same tough division. It's hard to play the new games because they not a large number there and they tend to be filled up with people. But what makes Expo cool is the large number of older games (pre-90's) on free play, including some rare ones. For someone who got into pins in the 90's it really is quite interesting to see and play the seminal pins. I would encourage anyone within driving distance to go, but hey, that's not for a while yet. Michael Field ------------------- Madison Pin-Kings x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: dancy@uclink.berkeley.edu (Franklin Ahmon Dancy) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 17:15:23 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley What a bunch of shit... he gets a few small problems and thinks the world is going to ban together behind him to boycot the best pinball show on the east coast. Couple of hints for you.. its a show not a tournament. yes they have one but its not the only reason to go. If you were the one in the finals and trying to win a 3k machine you wouldnt wand some jerk playing next to the machine so have some respecct for your fellow players! Last year was my $th year going to expo and Im going back for more! EXPO is GREAT allthough not perfect. The average guy like me got to attend a fireside chat 2 nights in a row up in the Berke Suite and let me tell you that it was the most enjoyable part of the show and I would like to thank those responsible for getting the speakers together for it. IF YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THIS SHOW... GO! ITS WORTH IT! They try to improve it every year and hand out sheets in your packet to jot down what u liked and didnt like to improve next years show. HINT: use it. -Dean x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: sigma@MCS.COM (Kevin Martin) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 21 Apr 1995 13:04:35 -0500 dancy@uclink.berkeley.edu (Franklin Ahmon Dancy) writes: >Last year was my $th year going to expo and Im going back for more! ^ Classic slip of the keyboard ;) I presume you meant fourth, and weren't referring to the fact that participating in the tournament or raffle at Expo is often way too expensive. >EXPO is GREAT allthough not perfect. It's pretty good, although the tournament is mostly a joke and the raffle has such weak rules, it's practically "fixed" for whatshisname... -- Kevin Martin sigma@mcs.com Pinball Archive: ftp.mcs.com(192.160.127.87):/mcsnet.users/sigma/pinball Oh, very clever Worf. Eat any good books lately? x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: jtduffy@ix.netcom.com (Jerry Duffy) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 22 Apr 1995 17:50:59 GMT In article <3n7lgo$1058@nntp4.mindspring.com> rosco29@mindspring.com (Scott Piehler) writes: >artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) wrote: > >>Folks, as a fellow enthusiast, and a participant in tournaments, I >>honestly cannot in good conscience say that Pinball Expo '95 will be worth >>your time or money. Take it from me, I've been to the last three, and >>they get worse every year. > >Gee, I was at EXPO '94 and kind of enjoyed myself. > Agreed. E94 was my first, And me and the guy I went with had a great time. Everyone has commented on how the tourney is run, and I agree. But other than that, I thought is was splendid way to spend my last 3 vacation days. :-) Lexington, Ky, doesn't see every new pin that is released, so I got to play a lot of games I wouldn't have gotten to otherwise. (Maverick, for example, has never been spotted here.) I, for one, am looking forward to Expo 95. Hopefully I can meet face to face with some of you rgp'ers this time. Jerry Duffy x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 23 Apr 1995 01:56:46 -0400 Fact: when I was physically thrown off, this was NOT IN THE TOURNAMENT! I do respect my fellow players, but they need to respect me as well. You weren't there, and you didn't see what happened. As for keeping the whole world from going, come on. I'm just providing an alternative viewpoint based in fact. Just ask Mike Pacak if game numbers have gone done. Look at the increasing prices. Is this exhibition really worth it? Not unless you live in Chicago. But to each his own. The response so far has been 75% agreement with my points, but that's not going to keep people from attending. So be it. I'm not satisfied, and I won't go. And it's THEIR loss. Tell me: how can they succeed without the players? Isn't gonna happen. And here's one less they'll see at the Expo next year. Hope you have a good time. Talk to Orin Day from Sega. Great guy, and good programmer too. Worked on Frankenstein. Met him last year. Probably the only highlight. Care to respond? E-Mail me, but you preobably won't change my mind. And foul language isn't necessary. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 23 Apr 1995 02:01:12 -0400 Too late, I've already been charged, and you don't know where I live. But you're right, it's who I am. And you WILL see me at Marvin's as that's where I play. What, are you going to "rough me up" for badmouthing the Expo? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and I thought I'd put mine out there. Don't think I'm afraid to say what I feel. Expo gets worse every year, and it's not worth the price or the hassle. So listen, you want to rebutt in person? Friday nights, always after 10pm I'm there, unless something else was planned. But I'll be there, and if I'm lucky, so will you. Love to here your personal opinions of the Expo. But you won't change my mind. And I will not retract my statements. Were they made in anger. Yes, sir. Were they factual? Yes, sir. Were they also based on my opinions and experiences? Yes, sir. See you Friday. Can't wait for the opportunity. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: marston@coos.dartmouth.edu (David Marston) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: 23 Apr 1995 21:41:29 GMT In article <3n7hh2$gq7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) advocates that you not attend Pinball Expo '95: >.... Add to this the fact that there are fewer and >fewer machines on display/for sale EVERY YEAR, I dispute this, but its accuracy can be independently checked by reviewing Russ Jensen's write-ups in _The_Coin_Slot_, which were available as a set at last year's Expo. Russ has wriiten a transcript of each Expo, and he tries to list every game that was on display. (BTW, both Russ and I have been to all ten Expos.) >...the fact that the hotel is >nothing to write home about... Agreed. That's why I stay across the street now. I may be considered biased because I have been a presenter at two past Expos and I have moderate communication with Rob Berk and Mike Pacak during the rest of the year. Let me assure you that I write a detailed critique for them when I get home from each Expo. Are the problems you cite incurable? .................David Marston uunet!dartvax!coos!marston marston@coos.dartmouth.EDU x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: aardvark13@delphi.com Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 17:45:58 -0500 The most agrivating thing I found about the expo last year was the stupid banquet (said from the perspective of one who did not go.) The halls were supposed to reopen afterwards (at 12 midnight I believe) but it ran late and then those who didn't go had to wait around to 2am until it reopened. Great for those who were at the expo banquet, but quite a pain for those who hear "it was open all night." Aard Yes, the tounament left a lot to be desired. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: rosco29@mindspring.com (Scott Piehler) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:09:38 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) wrote: >Fact: when I was physically thrown off, this was NOT IN THE TOURNAMENT! >I do respect my fellow players, but they need to respect me as well. As you already admitted, you *were* being somewhat distracting. In tourament, or out of tournament that's rude. Sounds to me like you just pissed off the wrong person. >You >weren't there, and you didn't see what happened. As for keeping the whole >world from going, come on. I'm just providing an alternative viewpoint >based in fact. And skewed by your bad experience. > Just ask Mike Pacak if game numbers have gone done. Look >at the increasing prices. Is this exhibition really worth it? Not unless >you live in Chicago. I *Y* NSHO >But to each his own. The response so far has been >75% agreement with my points, but that's not going to keep people from >attending. Based on what I've read, what you actually got was 100% agreement that the tournament part of EXPO sucks, and 0% agreement on the rest. >So be it. I'm not satisfied, and I won't go. And it's THEIR >loss. Tell me: how can they succeed without the players? Isn't gonna >happen. And here's one less they'll see at the Expo next year. Hope you >have a good time. Well. I won't be there (due to baby), but then again, when I went last time, it struck me as something that I wouldn't want to attend *every* year, but would be worth a return visit. >Talk to Orin Day from Sega. Great guy, and good >programmer too. Worked on Frankenstein. Met him last year. Probably the >only highlight. Orin's a great guy, at least based on my correspondence. Never met F2F. As far as the only highlight, you must have been in a pretty bad mood for the whole show. I missed the factory tour, but that got raves. I *loved* the seminars, particularly the flyer chat and Pat Lawlor's design talk. I thoroughly enjoyed the banquet, seeing all the machines, watching Tamar win a raffle for a Riverboat Gambler backglass (How prophetic, now the whole machine is on the way), talking with Roger Sharpe, meeting fellow r.g.p'ers, and just immersing myself in pinball for 3 days. >Care to respond? E-Mail me, but you preobably won't >change my mind. And foul language isn't necessary. No one's trying to change your mind. It appears that it's pretty well made up. That's fine. You do raise some points that EXPO needs to address (improve the tourney, perhaps a nicer hotel, etc.) Is any event perfect? No. If you examine any convention, etc, you can find dozens of reasons NOT to go. If you analyze the overall importance of things, you cannot possibly justify that much money to explore batting a silver ball around a wooden playfield. It's just something we do *For Amusement Only* I went because I could, because I had the FF miles to avoid paying airfare, and because it was a great way for Tamr and I to give the world the finger for a few days and be totally frivolous. M ore than trying to change your mind, I'm sorry that EXPO lost your business. It's an event that needs to be nurtured, if only for it's proximity to the manufacturers. Perhaps you'll give it another try in a few years. If not, oh well. Scott Scott Piehler rosco29@mindspring,com Atlanta, GA, USA The only graceful way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved. -- Russell Lynes, American editor and author. x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: pinjournal@aol.com (PINJOURNAL) Subject: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 (not) Date: 25 Apr 1995 02:34:05 -0400 artisanxxy@aol.com (ArtisanXXY) writes DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 ...I write back ... Hi Art (or whoever) I have been reading, with great interest, your thread about Expo. I almost answered privately, by Email because I don't want the magazine to be seen as being biased toward Expo. But as I got into writing, I decided to "go public." Not that I disagree with some of your individual points but maybe you are not seeing the forest for the trees. As an individual tree, the tournament is not a prize specimen. But if you stand back and look at the whole event you are talking the Redwood Forest. First, I believe your "tournament" problems were during the Pingolf tournament that was conducted on regular, non-tournament games. That event tied up too many games for too long and will most likely not be repeated next year. Expo is always changing and much of it is to increase the profile of good things and to tone down or eliminate what doesn't work. Rob and Mike listen to all complaints and criticism which often are at opposite ends of a spectrum and try to make decisions that reach a happy medium. What about the tournament? Again it is just one tree. What, I gather, most rgp folks feel is a good tourney is the PAPA event. Look at what goes into it. For the past 5 years Steve Epstein has spent most of his life on planes, talking to manufactures, sponsors, operators etc. to try to fuel the fire. He has a number of co-workers and a whole PUBLIC RELATIONS FIRM to send out news releases, photos etc. He has PAPA on National Public Radio, CNN, most local New York media. Besides taking a lot of time, this all takes money. BUT... PAPA is, for the most part, a very classy, well run, professional tournament. The Flip Out tournament at Expo isn't, can't, and never will be like PAPA. It is more to experience the feel and excitement of an tourney, have a chance to win a prize and have fun. Mostly have fun. Mike and Rob don't want it to be like PAPA .... there wouldn't be time for anything else! Many of the other events at Expo take up amazing amounts of time to get going. Just for Mike to organizing the exhibitors ... who wants one booth, who wants two or more ... do they need power, table cloths, signs... I want to be next to so and so ... but so and so has to be near "him" ... let's look at that map again and work it out ... I could go on.... In organizing the lectures Rob has to get topics and people to speak about them, plan when they will be and when and if the exhibit hall will open and .... they both spend TONS and TONS of time. As far as worth the money .. again you are looking at only one or two trees. Did you get to see the whitewood of Frankenstein in the pinGame journal booth? This game had not been seen ANYWHERE at that time. I'm still a little shocked that Data East allowed it but it was really cool. Play a whitewood while still in the design process. Think about what needs to be fixed and tell the designers about it while you are there. How often do players get that chance that early in game design? That would be worth admission to me be itself. Just seeing designer Wayne Neyens playing his Slick Chick and being able to go up to him, introduce yourself and talk to him about it or a hundred other games he designed for Gottlieb is worth it. Seeing Dave Christensen and Greg Kmiec together is worth it. Being at the fireside chat with most every WMS artist, many who worked for Bally, asking questions and getting answers is worth it. Touring Sega, and Electrical Windings AND seeing Donal Murphy's amazing collection of games is worth it and so on and so forth. It is worth it time and time again. I didn't mention plenty of other stuff, but I think you get the idea. Are there problems, of course. Should some things be done differently, sure. But it is one thing to complain and another to put on an event like this ... and do it for 10 years. Not many things in the hobby go on for 10 years. But we're looking at trees again. Look at the forest. Walk through it and enjoy the whole experience. If you see a dead branch or a weak tree, think of it as a natural part of a living forest. When you past that spot again, it may be gone or repaired! If you go to this forest to see only one tree, you may be disappointed. But if you don't go, look at all you will miss. All of this is just IMHO--Jim Schelberg, the pinGame journal x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x* From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten) Subject: Re: DON'T GO TO PINBALL EXPO 95 (not) Date: 25 Apr 1995 15:29:17 GMT In article <3ni54t$3vf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> pinjournal@aol.com (PINJOURNAL) writes: Did you get to see the whitewood of Frankenstein in the pinGame journal booth? This game had not been seen ANYWHERE at that time. I'm still a little shocked that Data East allowed it but it was really cool. Play a whitewood while still in the design process. Think about what needs to be fixed and tell the designers about it while you are there. How often do players get that chance that early in game design? Jim is being modest, believe me. Saying it was really cool is a huge understatement -- it was easily the best pinGame Journal exhibit yet, and in fact it was one of the best exhibits of any kind at the Expo. You got to see some of the original sketches for the artwork, the whitewood, and to top it all off, you actually go to play the game. Even more interesting: it seemed that everyone complained that you couldn't make the very steep ramp shot -- a major flaw in an otherwise very playable game. But when it was released, the whole ramp assembly had been changed so that it was no longer an issue -- which means that everyone who stopped by the pinGame Journal's exhibit got a feeling for what actually goes on in the design process, and how much games can be changed in even the late stages of development. It was a real glimpse behind the scenes of the pinball industry, and Jim and the folks at DE/Sega who made it possible did a great job putting the exhibit together. Stuff like that makes the Expo more than worthwhile. I'm definitely going to be back again this year. BTW, normally I wouldn't follow up to yet another flame from an AOL account, but I wanted to publicly thank Jim for all the work he puts in at each Expo. He seems to top himself each year, though I don't know what he could do this year to top the FRANKENSTEIN exhibit... -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, PANIX, New York, NY | remember, we were way ahead of you." | Email: sbb@panix.com | - David Letterman x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*x*